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Timer exploit
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Joined: 29 Apr 2015
Messages: 5

jeka wrote:@ElricE: you really should read through the forum you are posting to before posting. Every single point you raise had been addressed in this forum before, including someone posting a YouTube video of them solving a puzzle in about 30 seconds.

An easy puzzle not one at the extreme level... having read through the posts on the subject:
A) many have questioned such results and requested a separate scoring record for those not pausing
B) admins response to said request has been consistently blithe and dismissive
C) noone has been able to offer a scrap of proof that they can in fact complete the extreme puzzles in such fantastical times (particularly once times drop below even the two minute mark)... that's been requested fit quite some time also and neatly sidestepped and ignored.

Maybe if admin/devs have the appearance if giving two-****s the debate might get some sort of closure instead of continuing for years without any resolution
(Forum Admin)

Joined: 12 Jul 2010
Messages: 244

As we said before: "we will entertain recommendations that will help prevent / identify cheating"
We will not, however, implement ideas that run a risk of "false positives". What do you say to a person that is unable to upload his score because they had to take a call while solving a puzzle? Do you tell them not to take the call? They are playing on their phone! (BTW, there is a way to cheat without pausing, so I'm not sure why most of those saying there is cheating concentrate on that particular technique)

Nor will we run out and indulge every demand from those that presume others can't be quicker and / or smarter.

Most people that say the top scores are impossible, say that's because one can't enter the numbers that quickly. The video you viewed proves that they can.
Are you now saying that one can't think that quickly? I, for example, know I can't solve an extreme puzzle this fast, but I'm not willing to go so far as to assume that no one else can.

Finally, why do you insist on others having to prove anything? There is nothing to gain by being in the top 10 / 100 / 1000. Why would anyone care to prove anything? They probably don't even know you are claiming they cheat. If anything, the burden of proof should be on those making accusations. Can you prove there is cheating? Even if they knew of your claims, why would they care to prove anything to you? Because you don't believe they are doing it legitimately? If I were one of those with top times, I'd want to prove it, but not everyone is as competitive. Someone may read your post and say "I don't care if you believe I can do this, I don't have to nor need to prove anything to you".

I'm ranting here...

The bottom line is this:
  • cheating is possible simply because the environment is not controlled

  • we will not entertain any ideas that risk producing false positives

  • if you see results you consider cheating, let us know, and we will remove them if you can prove they were, in fact, results of a cheat

  • we give more than two-****s, but we want to be fair first and foremost, and we haven't seen a recommendation nor were we able to come up with one on our own, that would settle this issue fairly

  • Edit: one more thing to add - there was a bug in one of the earliest versions of the app that, under some circumstances, would stop the timer before the puzzle was completed. The bug has been fixed a long time ago, however, there are still a handful of devices that haven't upgraded from that ancient version. We could prevent them all from uploading, but we can't assume they are all cheats. They may simply have really old phones that don't support the update requirements, and they may not even know of the bug and what to do to make the timer stop prematurely.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 5 May 2015 14:55:12


    Joined: 29 Apr 2013
    Messages: 9

    In answer to ElricE: Did you see that YouTube video of the new Rubik's cube world record? Definitely nerds! My PB with Rubik's was about 3 times that world record time. I really kept going at it back then. Now my PB in Genina sudoku extreme is 1:30. I'm not the fastest, but getting a time below 1:45 is always satisfying. I don't think any of those quicker guys are cheating, definitely not the regulars. (I admit, I wasn't so sure earlier.) I am still trying to improve.

    Joined: 29 Apr 2015
    Messages: 5

    It would be basically impossible to prove once and for all if someone was cheating unless standing over their shoulder whilst playing. I'm not suggesting a game disqualified for having to pause, but rather two sets of ranking... One for those who have paused and one for those who haven't. It would certainly be interesting to see the difference in the top scores btwn the two

    Joined: 27 May 2015
    Messages: 1

    I actually started extreem games on 3 devices at the same time and finished all three before I even started them but since the timer will not record negative times I am not sure how to upload them. (I tried to capture video of this but ran into the same problem; I could not record the past so I am sorry, you will have to simply take my word for it).

    Joined: 17 Aug 2015
    Messages: 1

    I too am surprised at the quick times posted. A statistical analysis of the bulk data collected might prove amusing.

    I'd suggest the developer make a small inclusion with the uploaded time for each solution.. the system timestamp at first display of puzzle, and the system timestamp at solution. This being done behind the UI scene without player control or intervention (no optional flag setting). Discrepancies place the results in a separate bin on your server for comparisons (at a much later point, allowing time for data collection showing trends w/o player forethought). Do you (the developers) generate a unique hash on the puzzles? This might provide another criterion for ranking.. I certainly know of some "easy" being "hard" and vice versa.

    I'm sure someone in a university psyc lab somewhere would love to have the resulting data.


    Joined: 22 Aug 2015
    Messages: 1

    I play sudoku for 20 years now. As i progress (and still progressing) my technique has been impoved. I chose genina app, as it provided ultimate number of settings and comfort with style.
    this app unlike many others defines easy/hard/extreme games in a way that i can agree with (some other apps can be very random with difficulty).
    2 years ago when i first installed the app i was able to solve a very small percentage og extreme puzzles, but this triggered me to learn different solving methods (hidden pairs, x-wing, etc.) it takes a while before using techniques becomes natural, and after this speed may dramatically encrease. my best extreme score is 3:26 with the average game time under 5minutes i got no problems.
    i obviously was impressed with some high scores being just over 1 min, and i tried cheating, just out of curiosity. i can tell you, that even typing numbers from resolved game on a screen is tough to beat this, so let this be up to those individuals who dont mind trolling us and wasting their time in this fashion. every game has cheaters, the only mode that cant be cheated is if it is multiplayer online game, so maybe there is an oppotrunity there. i will be happy to take part in this. but meanwhile, i will keep improving.

    ps as i thought to record a video i set a new record of 2:56
    by knowing how many mistakes i made it is obviously possible to improve.

    This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 23 Aug 2015 02:44:40


    Joined: 22 May 2016
    Messages: 2

    Extreme games can be done around 2mins legit. My average is 6mins My best is 2:40 but i did have a game on 2mins but made a mistake and by the time i rectified was 2:43. So it is possible but like anything if there is a way to cheat people will.. been playin for a couple of years first extreme time use to be 1hour 20mins
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